Before the Dawn ~ Act Three (It's Always Darkest...)

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Eltee
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Re: Before the Dawn ~ Act Three (It's Always Darkest...)

Unread postby Eltee » 19 Dec 2013, 07:37

As far as the cards go, I know I have not been diligent in moving them around and have talked to you on the phone about them, however, I am willing to still use them and don't need you to control them. I was hoping you would realize I was joking when I was saying I wanted you to move them all to my pool.
I also know that when I asked where the skeletons were it upset you and for that I'm sorry but to me it was not clear and despite common beliefs I had read the posts. Neither of these are excuses, just facts as I see them. I know you spend a lot of time and effort on this game and I enjoy it but if you feel that I have slighted you in some way, while I can see that from your point and do apologize for said slights, they were never intended as such.
I want to make one point, to me it has felt as though the game has lost its flavor to most players for a while now. Whether it's just everyone is to busy or truly no longer have the game as a priority and don't want to say anything, it just doesn't seem to have the same fervor it did when I started. I know that I have not been perfect in posting myself and if I in someway have attributed to this downfall then to everyone I apologize.

This is just my two cents and I feel that with Paul's post that maybe it's time to discuss how we came to this and why things have hit the point in which Paul has to do things for us that, if it were in a tabletop would in no way be expected of the GM.

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Re: Before the Dawn ~ Act Three (It's Always Darkest...)

Unread postby Sir Alain Fisk » 19 Dec 2013, 08:22

Eltee wrote:As far as the cards go, I know I have not been diligent in moving them around and have talked to you on the phone about them, however, I am willing to still use them and don't need you to control them. I was hoping you would realize I was joking when I was saying I wanted you to move them all to my pool.
You and I did talk about that, but what I wrote was about a lot more than the damn cards, and it was about the whole group, not just you.

I also know that when I asked where the skeletons were it upset you and for that I'm sorry but to me it was not clear and despite common beliefs I had read the posts.
Not knowing where the Skeletons were did not upset me, but it felt to me like you had not read where they were; that upset me. You said you read... did I write something that was difficult to understand? I've been told a couple of times that I write in an odd fashion, something I'm not sure I'm capable of fixing. However, again, it's the entire group that makes me feel like no reading is being done.

Neither of these are excuses, just facts as I see them. I know you spend a lot of time and effort on this game and I enjoy it but if you feel that I have slighted you in some way, while I can see that from your point and do apologize for said slights, they were never intended as such.
I don't take slights from this, or anything else I do... not anymore. I am not slighted, I am not put off, unless I know for a fact I wrote something, and the information is there, and then I get asked a question that makes me feel like I have to re-type that very same information in order to have it understood.

Frankly, I'm beginning to think that I'm writing like someone with Alzheimer's, like someone who speaks a sentence that makes perfect sense to them, but sounds like: "Roller coaster ferns my dice with salmon", when what I really said was, "This makes perfect sense to me". It's everyone in the group who comes back, whether in PMs or in the thread, asking me about something I've already written, already explained, and up to this point I've simply been trying to explain it better. It's like I'll write, "There are three Nile Shock Troopers following you down the mist-covered street at about fifty feet behind you", but then someone will ask me, "How many shock troopers, which direction are they from me, and how far from me are they?" I have literally beat my head on my little laptop table several times now over questions like these; you can't sit there and tell me you guys are actually reading the stuff I'm writing, because it's enormously evident in your replies that you have not.

Had people read what I wrote, from the previous example, they would know there are 3 Nile Shock Troopers, I said they're following you, and they're fifty feet behind you, meaning I told you twice they're behind you, and they're at a range of 50 feet. I have been given awards for my style of writing, and I typically leave little out of the picture, though I have been known to be incomplete, or not performing 360 thinking when I've written, before. Still, regardless of the fact EVERYONE has told me they've at least skimmed the rules seriously, regardless of how many times I've described and/or provided links to how certain rules work, regardless of how much of the work I've done to help you all learn this new game of ours, it's extremely evident that all of you are having difficulty "getting it" with things that are related to simply reading what's been provided. For pete's sake, I have ALL of the links for the rules page in my signature block!!!! How hard is it to click one of those, go RIGHT to the section regarding that bit of work, and read a little bit?

I want to make one point, to me it has felt as though the game has lost its flavor to most players for a while now. Whether it's just everyone is to busy or truly no longer have the game as a priority and don't want to say anything, it just doesn't seem to have the same fervor it did when I started. I know that I have not been perfect in posting myself and if I in someway have attributed to this downfall then to everyone I apologize.
I've been noticing the very same thing, especially since it's about doubled my work load with regard to running this game. Kieran doesn't want to play it, anymore, because he's too busy with YouTube and a bunch of hyena-laughin' jackasses to give a damn about anything related to his immediate world, and taking YouTube away from him is not fair at this point. He had fun building his Pulp Hero character for this game, but now I can't get either of the boys to check their email when they first get up, and then have them post on this game, at all.

I've managed to talk one of the YouTube RPG Brigade members into joining our game, the American ESL Teacher from South Korea, because he has time to do this. However, I'm not sure I can bring him here, now, because just like the last two people I tried to get involved, BOTH OF WHICH were hardcore role-players, they dropped off within a month's time. HARDCORE ROLE-PLAYERS, and they quit really before they could get started.

This is just my two cents and I feel that with Paul's post that maybe it's time to discuss how we came to this and why things have hit the point in which Paul has to do things for us that, if it were in a tabletop would in no way be expected of the GM.
Thank you. I hope this is something that can be really well-touched on, because frankly my feelings are pretty bruised up in all of this. Every single time I try to launch something, I have to really wrestle with myself, first.

Jason even recommended that we should have switched over to Earthdawn rather than Torg and, perhaps, that would have made a huge difference, as it's fantasy based and a completely unique fantasy universe at that, but I have to be honest with you, it's also one hell of a lot of work, and tougher to deal with than Torg in a LOT of ways. Where it took me an afternoon to completely program, top-to-bottom, the Torg character sheet, and only a week for the basic rules page, it would have taken me a week just to get down the basics for an Earthdawn character sheet, and the game is more clunky than Torg, so it would have been more difficult. Add to that the fact I'm exhausted of Fantasy-genre games, and you have a real recipe for disaster.

Brandon's right, and I know I've said this before, but it is EXTREMELY difficult to put all of this together and to run it, but the EXTREMELY doesn't really come in until you have folks who aren't even willing to perform the basics themselves. That's where I'm bruised, and I'm mentally tired, and there have been times, especially over the past month, where I've expressed anxiety at even LOOKING at a post at the end of a link in email.

To finish up, here, my dedication to continuing to run this game has not wavered, even if I'm tired of seeing questions about things which I've already written. If there's a solution to be had to get you guys both interested in and working the basics of the game for yourselves, again, I'm there, just let me know what the hell it is, so I can shift fire. If I can't get that... (shrug)

NOTE: Use the following for your rolls on invisiblecastle.com/roller; Number of Rolls: 1, Dice: 2d10.extra(10), then copy the line of text inside the box on the results page, not any of the links. Next, find your bonus number from the Bonus Number chart on your character sheet, then add that bonus to the appropriate skill or attribute value -do NOT add the dice roll itself-, along with any other modifiers from abilities or technology to generate your total.

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Re: Before the Dawn ~ Act Three (It's Always Darkest...)

Unread postby Alexander Pepper » 19 Dec 2013, 08:56

I don't know what you mean when you say that I don't check my E-Mail. I can't say anything about Kieran, but I know that I at least check my E-mail once a day, if not more, and for this last combat I've been skimming through the posts because there's not much I can do from where I'm at, except maybe make a few comments that wouldn't have any real impact on the situation. I've already told everyone that the vortex has begun to spin faster, and they're working on getting that machine stopped. If there's something I'm missing here then it's my fault for not posting, but for this past combat I've had no good reason to post.
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Re: Before the Dawn ~ Act Three (It's Always Darkest...)

Unread postby Sir Alain Fisk » 19 Dec 2013, 09:17

The big deal is not whether what you say or do or write will have any effect on the story, it's simply the fact that you're writing the story. The more people write, the more people put effort into what their character is thinking, feeling, or doing, the more others will write, as well. I can't make it any more clear than that.

NOTE: Use the following for your rolls on invisiblecastle.com/roller; Number of Rolls: 1, Dice: 2d10.extra(10), then copy the line of text inside the box on the results page, not any of the links. Next, find your bonus number from the Bonus Number chart on your character sheet, then add that bonus to the appropriate skill or attribute value -do NOT add the dice roll itself-, along with any other modifiers from abilities or technology to generate your total.

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Re: Before the Dawn ~ Act Three (It's Always Darkest...)

Unread postby Matthias » 19 Dec 2013, 19:24

Out-Of-Character ∴ Hey, you leave my preference of games out of this! :D

I know that I am guilty of being short with words, and even though I intend to fully go back and re-work what I have decided to write I never have due to personal time. You know me Paul, I over plan my day and try to cram everything into it. This is no excuse for my lack of writing and attention to the game.

I cannot promise anything until the new year, 4 different families to visit in 2 weeks, but I will make more of an effort after the new year.

My only caveat is that this is a forum based session. It is not a table top, and while that makes it more of a challenge to run... certain allowances must be made. I know that it can cause the game to run slowly, but perhaps an agreement of a certain number of posts per week at a minimum should be set. I do not think that it is fair to expect people to post AS SOON AS ANOTHER POST HAS BEEN MADE for example. I for one cannot do this reliably due to the nature of my work and my private life being hectic as it is not to mention my, unfortunately, well documented ADHD among other things.

For situations like this in these games, some form of mapping software needs to be used. I have been playing around with a few different pieces of software, and I will attempt to see if they can work for what our group needs. I know one of them will show fog of war based upon each individual player and the likes, it is just going to be a matter of figuring out how to get the correct rights and privilleges setup. You know that I am playing around with some java code for a die roller that might fit the needs of this game more than Invisible Castle's rollers, and the only reason I did that was that it took me all of 5 minutes to rework some older crap I did almost a year ago.

To make my rant shorter, I will make changes to how I post, and at least make them substantive to the game, if not frequent as well. I will also attempt to remain logged into Skype more often, although my Google Talk is always on so that my wife can get me without racking up my text message limits.

Paul you know me, I am in need of something of this nature to fill my RP twitch. I want to play, I intend to play, there are just times where it is not possible for me to play and when there is time I have forgotten what it is that I wanted to do if it has been several hours since I last looked.
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Re: Before the Dawn ~ Act Three (It's Always Darkest...)

Unread postby Sir Alain Fisk » 19 Dec 2013, 20:47

Matthias wrote:
Out-Of-Character ∴ Hey, you leave my preference of games out of this! :D
Been thinking about it a LOT lately, actually but, in line with what I said, earlier, I think I would rather take a titanium bit in an electric drill to my temple, first. I absolutely love that game, but someone else -ahem- would need to run it; to be honest, though, I wouldn't recommend it for a while, yet, hehe. Hell, maybe I could convert Warhammer character's somehow to it... nah. No, back to Warhammer when we have a chance.

Out-Of-Character ∴ I cannot promise anything until the new year, 4 different families to visit in 2 weeks, but I will make more of an effort after the new year.
Perhaps we should take a break until after the holidays?

Out-Of-Character ∴ I know that it can cause the game to run slowly, but perhaps an agreement of a certain number of posts per week at a minimum should be set.
1 post at least every third day; that has NOT been the problem. The posting has been fantastic. The problem is inattentiveness to the rules; in fact, that's an odd correlation, right there... we finally get posting squared away, for the most part, and now folks have stopped paying attention to the writing requirements and the basic mechanics.

Out-Of-Character ∴ I do not think that it is fair to expect people to post AS SOON AS ANOTHER POST HAS BEEN MADE for example. I for one cannot do this reliably due to the nature of my work and my private life being hectic as it is not to mention my, unfortunately, well documented ADHD among other things.
I have no problem with that whatsoever. I haven't needed to expect anyone to post for a while, now, and I don't believe asking folks to check the forums once a day and post at least once every 72 hours is a bad thing. The problem is that forums don't get checked once a day, or more as you like, and posts are either forgotten to be made, or you guys don't deem that anything in the story is presently affecting your character. So, the story all but stops.

Out-Of-Character ∴ For situations like this in these games, some form of mapping software needs to be used. I have been playing around with a few different pieces of software, and I will attempt to see if they can work for what our group needs. I know one of them will show fog of war based upon each individual player and the likes, it is just going to be a matter of figuring out how to get the correct rights and privilleges setup. You know that I am playing around with some java code for a die roller that might fit the needs of this game more than Invisible Castle's rollers, and the only reason I did that was that it took me all of 5 minutes to rework some older crap I did almost a year ago.
I know Roll 20, and it looks like it would be relatively easy to use, but the maps I have available are crap for use with it, and I would need to put in some... hmmm... I might be able to do that, after all, depending on how expensive things are, there. Now, with Roll 20, you CAN play all at one time, but you don't have to; through a combination of Roll 20 and these forums, both Warhammer Fantasy and Torg COULD be made easier to deal with.

Out-Of-Character ∴ I will also attempt to remain logged into Skype more often, although my Google Talk is always on so that my wife can get me without racking up my text message limits.
Yeah, I'm still not sure I'll be able to use Skype without it freaking out the laptop, but I can try to do an update and see if that will work.

Out-Of-Character ∴ Paul you know me, I am in need of something of this nature to fill my RP twitch. I want to play, I intend to play, there are just times where it is not possible for me to play and when there is time I have forgotten what it is that I wanted to do if it has been several hours since I last looked.
Well, I know you tech guys don't like to use paper and pencil, hehe... I look to my children for that one... but it IS handy to use, hehe. Look, my major concerns are that no one is...
  • actually reading what is written in-between rounds,
  • actually using their character sheet, or
  • making use of all the player-based stuff I've put on the rules page for you guys to have available, and
  • the cards are not being used in as timely a fashion as they should be by some
I know all of these things have been addressed, and they will be addressed, again, but I would really like to go with players who pay attention and help me out.

Let's see who reads this far... Now, Gavin's not answered all day, and I found out why, so my recommendation is to take a short break from this, until after the New Year? What do you guys think?

NOTE: Use the following for your rolls on invisiblecastle.com/roller; Number of Rolls: 1, Dice: 2d10.extra(10), then copy the line of text inside the box on the results page, not any of the links. Next, find your bonus number from the Bonus Number chart on your character sheet, then add that bonus to the appropriate skill or attribute value -do NOT add the dice roll itself-, along with any other modifiers from abilities or technology to generate your total.

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Re: Before the Dawn ~ Act Three (It's Always Darkest...)

Unread postby Eltee » 19 Dec 2013, 23:08

That would be fine with me as until at least Thursday I will be pretty hopin with extracurricular activities.

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Re: Before the Dawn ~ Act Three (It's Always Darkest...)

Unread postby Matthias » 20 Dec 2013, 18:44

Out-Of-Character ∴ I am kosher either way bub.


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Re: Before the Dawn ~ Act Three (It's Always Darkest...)

Unread postby Jack_Jones » 22 Dec 2013, 11:53

Wow...wasn't expecting all this.

To answer your question from a couple of days ago I am happy to recommence playing after the 27th. Although it may be a bit sporadic with New Years and family commitments.

Ok all the other stuff...

Firstly I'd like to think that I am one of the players that keeps the game moving, contributes a lot and has tried to bring others into the game. I do check my email everyday, but I have to relay on my phone. Posting from a phone is a pain in the arse, but I try not to let it hold me back. Also I do rely on the notifications and sometimes that doesn't work, something that I need to stop doing and check the site instead. I missed all this for example. I only came on to respond to when to start up again :)

For me I work visually I like to see a diagram, an example, an end product, etc...that's just the way I am. Giving me pages and pages of information to read is not how I work best but I will try. I am basically a very practical person. If you show me something I'm all over it. If you give me a book to read I'll have a list of questions as long as your arm.

Translating that back to the game a good example for me was when we taking the drilling machine I could see where everyone else was and how the scene was unfolding. However I didn't get that in the recent Skeleton fight for me personally despite the descriptive efforts I found it hard to work out where I was in relation to other members of the group and how the scene was unfolding, frankly I felt a bit in the dark. Now I'm 37 I'm not going to wake up tomorrow and interpreting information differently, but I will do my best with whatever I have to work with. I would however like to say that you have put more visual elements into the game and for that I thank you it has worked well for me.

I had never played TORG before and not played Earthdawn, but always up for giving things a go. principally I know most role playing games follow a similar format, but have different mechanisms. I wont lie I have struggled with dice rolls, but I think I have finally got their :/ But I will always take comfort in games that I have played before and know the rule e.g. Warhammer, AD&D, MERP. An element of that is comfort zone.

I guess when it comes to missing or not reading information some of it can get lost when things move quickly, for example you told me that I could use one of my skills to assist on this console. I eventually found it after 20 minutes of looking on a post from the 22nd November. Things like this when I'm reliant on a phone will unfortunately end up with me asking the question again.

Bottom line -

Playing online will never be as easy as face to face. Things are going to get lost in translation, people are going to interpret things incorrectly. That's nobody's fault just human nature. I would like to keep on playing and happy to go back to Warhammer or continue with TORG, even if I am a liability at times :)

Paul you do put a hell of a lot into this and I can understand your annoyance when you get little back. Please don't feel unappreciated.
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Re: Before the Dawn ~ Act Three (It's Always Darkest...)

Unread postby Sir Alain Fisk » 22 Dec 2013, 15:47

Y'know what, gang, we'll pick back up after the New Year. All I can ask is that you read, whether you like it or not, because this entire bit could have been avoided if one of our players had simply read what they should have. If I have to get more specific than that, I will make a short list of who did what, when, and how it NEEDS to be improved.

Now, I put the most up-to-date Tapatalk on these forums, and on my other two forums; if you don't know how to use that, please contact Jason; he talked me into this, and I put it on -not all that difficult, in truth- to make things easier for everyone that decides to use walkabout tech rather than desktop tech.

To finish, I CANNOT make this game ANY easier than it already is; this game requires diligence, it requires you to pay attention and look things up -ALL of which I have provided, and multiple links all over the place to get to it-, and though I have tried to accommodate many silly-ass questions about things I've already explained, I have to admit to getting pretty put out by those questions, especially when they've already been answered, and recently.

NOTE: Use the following for your rolls on invisiblecastle.com/roller; Number of Rolls: 1, Dice: 2d10.extra(10), then copy the line of text inside the box on the results page, not any of the links. Next, find your bonus number from the Bonus Number chart on your character sheet, then add that bonus to the appropriate skill or attribute value -do NOT add the dice roll itself-, along with any other modifiers from abilities or technology to generate your total.

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Re: Before the Dawn ~ Act Three (It's Always Darkest...)

Unread postby Eltee » 24 Dec 2013, 08:49

Merry Christmas everyone. Enjoy the holidays with your families and see y'all(or you'ins if you prefer) next year!


Ooc: do I need a roll for this!? Hehe, sorry couldn't help myself!!

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Re: Before the Dawn ~ Act Three (It's Always Darkest...)

Unread postby Alexander Pepper » 24 Dec 2013, 12:00

Merry Christmas! See you all later
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Re: Before the Dawn ~ Act Three (It's Always Darkest...)

Unread postby Sir Alain Fisk » 24 Dec 2013, 12:02

Yes, give the highest roll you possibly can... or the Christmas cheer gets it, buddy. hehe

I want to wish all of you a Merry Christmas, as well; hopefully, things will be better, in real life, for all of us. Happy New Year, as well. This looks strange typing it across the mouth of my embossed Minotaur, hehe.

I'm going to attempt to give Roll 20 a go, guys. I will need to rebuild a map for the pirate ship, and try to get all of your tokens appropriately sized and placed. I will offer up new tokens for you guys to choose from; top-down versions, for now, until I can afford better. The only problem is you will need to make an account on Roll20.net, and then I will have to invite you to the game. If I can't swing the pirate ship, then we'll try to start with Roll 20 for "Wizard..."

Roll 20 will give you visual representations while allowing us to take turns, and if I can figure out how to write the macro's necessary for the rolls, and attach them to your skills, or some such, perhaps life can be made easier all the way around.

NOTE: Use the following for your rolls on invisiblecastle.com/roller; Number of Rolls: 1, Dice: 2d10.extra(10), then copy the line of text inside the box on the results page, not any of the links. Next, find your bonus number from the Bonus Number chart on your character sheet, then add that bonus to the appropriate skill or attribute value -do NOT add the dice roll itself-, along with any other modifiers from abilities or technology to generate your total.

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Re: Before the Dawn ~ Act Three (It's Always Darkest...)

Unread postby Jack_Jones » 24 Dec 2013, 14:07

Merry Christmas all.

Currently 22.05 here in the uk. Olivia has finally gone to sleep as excitement levels have been quite high :)

I hope you all have a successful and happy 2014
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Re: Before the Dawn ~ Act Three (It's Always Darkest...)

Unread postby Matthias » 24 Dec 2013, 14:57

Out-Of-Character ∴ A bit on the late side of life here, but I trust that everyone will have a great evening and wonderful morning with the families all yelling and trying to poke, scratch, claw, and otherwise attempt to get their presents!

Also for the adults, have a safe new years and watch out for the loons that decide to drive when they shouldn't!



Sir Alain Fisk wrote:I'm going to attempt to give Roll 20 a go, guys. I will need to rebuild a map for the pirate ship, and try to get all of your tokens appropriately sized and placed. I will offer up new tokens for you guys to choose from; top-down versions, for now, until I can afford better. The only problem is you will need to make an account on Roll20.net, and then I will have to invite you to the game. If I can't swing the pirate ship, then we'll try to start with Roll 20 for "Wizard..."

Roll 20 will give you visual representations while allowing us to take turns, and if I can figure out how to write the macro's necessary for the rolls, and attach them to your skills, or some such, perhaps life can be made easier all the way around.


Out-Of-Character ∴ Ok Paul. Let me know what I can help with to get roll20 up and running. I have been playing with it as well as I was looking at that and RPTools. I personally think RPTools is the better option, but you have to have your own server running, which I happen to have 2 running so it is a no brainer for me. We can hash out thoughts through email or another forum if you would like to move it there, or tell me to stuff it and I will stop insisting that I can help! :D


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